🎙️ My guest today is Samuel Kullmann, a Member of Parliament from Switzerland’s Canton Bern, entrepreneur, and one of Europe’s first openly pro-Bitcoin politicians. His journey began in 2015 when the Swiss National Bank dropped its euro peg, pushing him to study money, move from gold to Bitcoin, and embrace hard-money principles. We discuss how Switzerland’s decentralized system — shared executive power, binding referendums, and a constitutional “debt brake” — aligns with Bitcoin’s ethos. Samuel details his opposition to Switzerland’s new digital ID law, warning of normalization and future linkage with CBDCs.
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We talked about:
00:00 - Coming Up…
01:30 - Introduction to Samuel: Swiss Politician & Bitcoin Advocate
03:50 - Bitcoin Advocacy
06:40 - Politicians in Bitcoin Generally, and Specifically in Switzerland
08:55 - Separating Money & State in Switzerland
10:31 - Swiss Referendum System & Direct Democracy
16:44 - Digital ID in Switzerland
22:58 - Concerns About Digital ID Linked to CBDCs
28:11 - Short Questions & Closing Remarks
My takeaways from this episode:
Samuel recounts how the 2015 Swiss National Bank shock—dropping the euro peg overnight—forced him to confront how fragile monetary systems really are
He dove into gold and silver before discovering Bitcoin in 2016, reaching conviction in 2020 after reading *The Bitcoin Standard* and becoming one of Europe’s first openly pro-Bitcoin politicians
Unlike typical politicians, he runs a Lightning node, attends meetups, and considers himself part of the Bitcoin community rather than a representative speaking to it
He explains that Swiss power is intentionally decentralized: the top office is shared by seven people, and any law can be overturned by 50,000 citizen signatures through a referendum
A separate mechanism—the “popular initiative”—lets 100,000 signatures propose constitutional amendments, which he experienced firsthand at age 17 when helping to abolish statutes of limitations for pedophile crimes
He attributes Switzerland’s cultural alignment with Bitcoin to its history of gold-backed money, fiscal discipline, and a constitutional “debt brake” that restricts deficits
Samuel opposed the new digital ID law passed in 2025 with 50.39% support, arguing that despite improved tech design, it lacked legal guarantees for unlinkability, voluntariness, and explicit bans on social-credit systems
He warns that the real danger is normalization—being asked to show ID for everything—and that combining digital IDs with programmable CBDCs could create total control
While acknowledging that propaganda can sway opinion, he defends the integrity of Swiss referendums: votes are counted locally in over 2,100 municipalities under multiparty oversight
He expects Switzerland to move slower than the EU on retail CBDCs due to its culture of neutrality and direct democracy, which still gives citizens the final word
Spiritually, he links Bitcoin to moral sovereignty, describing freedom as “choosing the good” and grounding his routine in daily prayer
His translation of “The Gospel According to Bitcoin” explores parallels between faith and monetary truth, reflecting his belief that sound money and moral clarity are inseparable
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