🎙️ My guest today is Max Kei, former private banker and founder of Debifi, the world’s largest non-custodial Bitcoin-backed lending platform for institutions. With over a decade in private banking and deep experience building peer-to-peer Bitcoin infrastructure at Hodl Hodl and launching the Baltic Honeybadger conference, Max has become a leading voice on how Bitcoin will reshape global finance. In this episode, he explains why banks will adapt to Bitcoin rather than be destroyed by it, how Switzerland is quietly becoming the prototype for Bitcoin-banking integration, and why non-custodial finance is essential to prevent the next FTX-style collapse. We explore the tradeoffs between custodial and non-custodial systems, the security advantages of three-of-four multisig for institutional loans, and why stablecoins act as both a lifeline in emerging markets and a gateway to a full Bitcoin standard.
This episode is also on Twitter, Spotify, YouTube, Fountain, Rumble and more.
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We talked about:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:20 - Introduction to Max Kai: Bitcoin Pioneer
04:50 - Baltic Honey Badger Conference Origins
10:27 - Ad Break: Trezor & BitVault
11:50 - Bitcoin’s Community Ethos, Mission & Conferences
19:00 - Max’ Intro to Bitcoin Through A Client
20:50 - Gradually Moving From Fiat To Bitcoin
30:40 - When Will Banking Join Bitcoin?
32:53 - Switzerland’s Role in Bitcoin Banking
38:03 - Rehypothication, Non-Custodial, Multisig Solutions
42:01 - Flexible Lending Platforms & Security Measures
56:13 - Max’s Take On Stablecoins: A Bridge to Bitcoin
1:08:18 - Max Motivations, Aspiration & Hope
My takeaways from this episode:
Max shares how more than a decade in private banking shaped his understanding of risk, regulation, and financial infrastructure before discovering Bitcoin’s potential to upend traditional finance
He recounts the pivotal moment when a client sent $15,000 in Bitcoin to Brazil instantly and for pennies, challenging his assumptions about banking rails and sparking his deep dive into Bitcoin
Max explains how early work at Hodl Hodl led to the creation of the Baltic Honeybadger conference, which became the first major European Bitcoin-only event and helped catalyze a wave of high-signal, mission-aligned gatherings globally
He speaks candidly about why banks will adapt to Bitcoin rather than be destroyed by it, pointing to Switzerland’s private and cantonal banks as early movers already offering Bitcoin custody, lending, and payments integration
Max argues that non-custodial finance with multisig security is essential to prevent another FTX-style collapse, contrasting custodial risk with designs like three-of-four multisig to minimize counterparty failure points
He breaks down the role of stablecoins as both a lifeline for people in emerging markets and a bridge toward Bitcoin adoption, while criticizing over-centralized stablecoin systems that replicate fiat weaknesses
Max stresses the importance of gradual transition to a Bitcoin standard, warning that sudden monetary shifts risk chaos, social instability, and mass financial harm rather than liberation
He outlines Debifi’s strategy as a technology provider rather than a direct lender: white-labeling its infrastructure so banks, exchanges, and institutional lenders can offer Bitcoin-backed loans without custodial risk
Max predicts institutional Bitcoin adoption will mirror corporate treasury adoption: a slow start, followed by rapid acceleration once early movers prove the model works at scale
He frames the ultimate goal as low-time-preference finance built on open, permissionless infrastructure, giving individuals and institutions optionality, security, and a path to sound money
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